The Secrets behind Mobile Money's Explosive Growth in Africa: Insights from Pawa Pay's CFO

Probably a simple way to kind of understand Pawa Pay or to think about us is we're one of

the biggest payment companies on the continent.

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So we only focus on Africa.

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We think there's plenty of opportunity.

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There's plenty of complexity and enough to keep us busy and growing.

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And

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And of course we can, Nigeria has its own infrastructure, is banking focused and we do get

involved there.

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We do have a presence and we do do that as well.

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And South Africa has cars, but when you look at sub-Saharan Africa, everything is about

mobile money.

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It's not a substitute for cards or conventional banking, but it's a technology which

completely leapfrogged these payment products by decades.

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There was in M-PESA in Nairobi and in Kenya,

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10 years before there was Venmo or anything in the, which is approaching the equivalent in

the US.

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Yeah, yeah, we're nearly at three actually.

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So yeah,

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Hey global Ghanaian citizens, Adrian here from the Sound of Accra Podcast.

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In today's episode, we're going to be diving deep into the fascinating world of mobile

money.

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We're featuring Aaron Markowitz-Scholman, who's the CFO over at Pawa Pay Pawa Pay is a B2B

mobile money aggregator and payment gateway that enables businesses to collect and

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disburse payments across 20 plus different African countries, all through one single API

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In this episode, you're going to learn how mobile money became Africa's original stable

coin, how it's revolutionising the way transactions are made across the continent, and its

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transformative impact on Africa's payment landscape.

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You want to stay tuned as we uncover the secrets behind power pay success and the

strategic focus on mobile money, keeping it ahead in Africa's digital payment race.

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Now, whether you're a fintech enthusiast, entrepreneur, or just curious about the payments

of Africa,

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This episode is packed with insights you won't want to miss.

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Let's go straight into

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our conversation with Aaron.

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All right, so I'd like to welcome Aaron, who's the CFO of Pawa Pay Welcome to the Sound of

the Crowd podcast, Aaron.

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How are doing?

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Yeah, I'm great.

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It's really nice to be on the sound of Accra and it's really nice to be having this

conversation from Accra.

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So I got into Ghana yesterday, which is always one of my favorite places to visit.

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Okay, so it's not your first time, so I'm glad you've been there multiple times.

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Yeah, I think this is my third or fourth trip over the last year or so.

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So it's an important market for us.

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As I said, it's a great place to come.

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So yeah, it's always a pleasure to be here.

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Likewise, Aaron, it's pleasure always for me to hear people are visiting my country.

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So I'm always excited and the show is called the Sound of Accra So it doesn't get more

Accra than that, does it?

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So I think Aaron, that's a that's a good place to start.

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There's a number of things I want to touch upon in terms of including your role, pawa pay

where you sit in the market, the future.

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We've also got this 3i Africa Summit happening as well.

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But that's a good place to start in terms of you mentioned Ghana is a strong market for

you.

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Could you tell us about Ghana and I believe it's 19 other countries that Pawa Pay in or is

it more?

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Yeah, no, so, so Pawa Pay we operate in 20 countries across Africa.

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um

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Probably a simple way to kind of understand Pawa Pay or to think about us is we're one of

the biggest payment companies on the continent.

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So we only focus on Africa.

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We think there's plenty of opportunity.

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There's plenty of complexity and enough to keep us busy and growing.

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And at Pawa Pay, we um focus really specifically on what we call local payment methods.

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So of course, across the continent and across Sub-Saharan Africa, this means mobile money.

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uh

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other things like we look at crypto, look at banking and are starting to make some headway

there.

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But we're really experts in mobile money.

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And effectively what we have is one API that merchants, whether local or international,

can connect to.

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And through that, they get access to these 20 countries, including Ghana, um where we're

on the back directly integrated to around 50 different mobile networks and banking

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partners.

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So that means with Pawa Pay, you can get access to

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around a billion wallets or 90 % of the wallets across sub-Saharan Africa and in addition

to kind of giving people the ability to do collections and disbursements, we also offer

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full-stack treasury.

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So you can collect money in Ghana, you can collect money for selling goods in Kampala and

then we'll be able to deliver those funds from the mobile money ecosystem either for local

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settlement or internationally into whatever currency you want.

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So we basically help merchants do business

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in and across the continent.

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I think it's a fantastic product because when I've come across a lot of these FinTech

products that designed for the continent, it could be like a remittance platform.

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I'm not going to mention any names, just to keep it heavily Pawa Pay focused.

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It's so easy for the product to get so diversified and so like, um what's the word I'm

looking for?

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So big.

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But what you guys have decided to do is to double down on mobile money and focus and go

all in.

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Why is that?

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What's so special about mobile money?

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Why mobile money?

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Why not ads?

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I know you added remittance capabilities to the platform recently, but why go all in on

mobile money?

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Yeah, I I think it's really simple, actually.

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If you look at where the growth is, and if you look at how people across the continent

make payments digitally.

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And of course we can, Nigeria has its own infrastructure, is banking focused and we do get

involved there.

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We do have a presence and we do do that as well.

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And South Africa has cars, but when you look at sub-Saharan Africa, everything is about

mobile money.

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It's not a substitute for cards or conventional banking, but it's a technology which

completely leapfrogged these payment products by decades.

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There was in M-PESA in Nairobi and in Kenya,

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10 years before there was Venmo or anything in the, which is approaching the equivalent in

the US.

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And so if you want to reach African customers at scale, you have to meet them where they

are and they're using mobile money.

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uh And it's highly secure, it's really fast, it's very, very reliable.

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And for us, that's the bet.

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Perfect.

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mean, I couldn't have broken down mobile money and explained why mobile money is so

important the way you broke it down.

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um It's so important, I think, to really focus on how important mobile money is.

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think a lot of people overlook this because so many people are unbanked in the continent.

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And also it's just something that is just so easy to use.

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Like I could be in the Ubers or in the Bolts.

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I'm not sure if Bolt is one of your customers.

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I don't know if they're one of your clients.

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I'm not sure if they are.

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yeah, we work with them in a number of ride hailing uh customers across the continent.

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And that's a super interesting use case, right?

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Because you have, for many of our merchants, but you have an instance where...

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payment reliability is so huge.

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Like you have to be able to execute that payment in an instant.

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And you have to get that money from where it needs to go, whether that's a rider who's

paying for her ride or a driver who like needs to collect their salary for the days

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working.

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Like you really, really need to have the deliverability there.

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And for these kinds of multinational groups that operate in many different countries,

know, they need the peace of mind and they need the support uh

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and they need the lack of hassle that comes from having just one supplier who's reliable.

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No, it's a really needed product, honestly.

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I mean, I've seen similar players, you know, on the continent, but I think one that just

focus on purely on mobile money, I think is really needed because there's so many

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opportunities and use cases that that product can actually be useful as well.

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Just moving on a bit from mobile money.

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Could you just tell us a little bit about...

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your role at Pawa Pay.

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I mean, you've broken it down nicely what Pawa Pay is for those that don't really

understand, but could you tell us a bit about your role and what a typical day may look

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like for you, you know, working at the company?

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Yeah, I'm laughing because I'm still waiting to have a typical day, I'm the CFO at Pawa

Pay.

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And in that remit, I looked after, of course, the finance function, the tax function, the

legal function, and also the treasury function.

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um And well, I love it.

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think uh one of the things I really appreciate is that, you know, of course, the finance

piece is crucial, but the opportunity to be CFO at this company also puts me right in the

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heart of the

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commercial and strategic discussions around the business as well and in close contact with

our clients.

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uh What do I mean by that?

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Treasury sits at the heart of what we do.

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So congratulations, you've collected a million dollars worth of Zambian Kwacha But if

you're a European, you're not just calling HSBC and asking to do a trade.

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It's our obligation to help you get those funds settled either locally or internationally.

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And uh the other aspect of it that's really nice is that a lot of the time we're selling

to sometimes my counterpart at another organization.

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um you know, think no CFO wants to think about payments that much.

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Right?

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It's a, it's a challenge you need to solve.

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But if you've got a company that's for the first time starting to do business on the

continent, there's so many exciting things to think about.

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There's, there's, there's, there's marketing, there's choosing your markets, there's

assessing the opportunity.

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There's, there's so much to think about in terms of planning and risk.

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Payments aren't an afterthought, but they just need to work.

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And that's where we step in and sort of being the partners to help them navigate that.

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And then in doing so, like helping them to

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think a little bit more about what their strategy for the continent might look like as

well.

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So a typical day for me, we'll be all over the place.

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mean, between the 20 countries and those various teams, we're picking up lots of different

things.

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We spend a lot of time looking at Treasury now, trying to make it more efficient, trying

to integrate it more into the process, because we see that as being a huge friction, not

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just for us, but for other businesses who want to expand in the continent.

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We spend a lot of time.

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you know, trying to support our teams in market because across these 20 countries, we have

a presence on the ground.

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We really pride ourselves on being an Africa focused, but also an African present business

and, you know, looking to kind of bolster the reputation of the brand, do outreach,

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engagement, and really trying to build our reputation and partnerships locally.

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Perfect.

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And I think that's a good place to segue because he mentioned locally, being present on

the continent locally, as well as serving the continent from outside Africa as well.

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You mentioned of course, you're in Accra right now for the 3i Africa Summit, et cetera.

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And I know people such as the CEO and the CEO from Pawa Pay, they've been very active in

getting involved in events such as the Africa Tech Summit and things like that.

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How important has it for Pawa Pay to be on the ground as well as building from outside of

the continent as well as I'm aware your team is scattered across the globe.

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Yeah, mean, first of all, the majority of our team is based in Africa.

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And for us, it's essential.

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um There's a statutory piece to that.

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We're locally licensed, we're compliant.

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That engenders particular obligations to have dedicated staff on the ground, which of

course we adhere to.

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uh But you really need to have an understanding of local markets.

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You need to have networks.

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You need to have relationships.

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mean, everything I'm saying here applies to doing business everywhere.

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It's not unique, but...

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uh

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It's absolutely crucial.

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know, we have more than 200 mobile money wallets.

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We have more than 150 bank accounts.

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We're working with dozens and dozens and dozens of counterparties.

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And our job is to make all of that disappear when it comes to a company that wants to

collect a payment or do a payout or transfer money from one country to another.

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And you can have all of

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the agreements in place, can have all of the technology in place, but you still need to be

present and have the relationships and the networks to make sure that that can happen

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seamlessly.

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And not just to do it in terms of like the existing operations, but also to understand

where the next opportunities are coming, how you can develop things further, how we can

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expand.

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uh So much of that comes from the brilliant teams that we have in the business operating

across Africa.

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No, I think you said it.

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really well Aaron and I think if you're not in the continent, if you're not in person

having those crucial conversations, there's no way you're going to be able to move the

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needle forward.

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And I think such a continent as Africa where negotiations really need to take place in

person, know, it's not, doesn't really, the playbooks in the West doesn't really always

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work in Africa the same way.

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So you need to be on the ground making things happening.

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And I'm sure that's been the key em for you and the team to expand into all these

different markets across Africa, because I'm sure every

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different country in Africa is not the same in terms of the mobile money operators, in

terms of the banks, the central banks, the regulators.

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There's a lot of moving parts and doing this outside of the continent would not be

possible.

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By the way, congratulations.

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I know you guys cross over 2 billion transactions along the lines of that.

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Yeah, yeah, we're nearly at three actually.

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So yeah, we crossed two billion last October.

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And I think it took just under a year to get from, or just over a year to get.

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I'll double check and let you know, but like it took it took a fraction of the time to go

from one to two and it's going to take even less time to go from from two to three.

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uh And for us, that's really, that's really exciting.

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And, know, tying that back to what you asked about mobile money, like for us, that's the,

don't want to say the proof, but that's what gives us like the really, really strong

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conviction uh is that we see this channel continuing to grow.

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And of course there's other things, as I said,

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that come up and that we're doing and that we're exploring, especially in regard to bank,

especially in regards to digital assets.

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But we don't see mobile money being replaced.

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We still see it as the backbone of digital commerce.

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yeah, hence the focus and the growth that not just we see, but we see kind of across the

industry as well.

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Yeah, and I think it's also clear that you have things like uh mobile.

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mobile penetration in terms of smartphones, you've got the internet improving, you have

all these different areas in Africa improving and I'm sure that's kind of contributing to

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your success which is fantastic.

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Let me ask you this Aaron, mobile money I believe right now is running on web 2 if I'm

correct but it looks like it's going to transition to web 3 very shortly.

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How well positioned do you feel Pawa Pay is ready for that transition when it does take

place?

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Right, is this a hidden question about stable coins, Adrian?

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Yeah, I want to go to stable coin and crypto when all of that comes into play.

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mean, we're in a market where I Africans are more savvy to crypto and using the

blockchain.

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I mean, I've had a lot of guests on who builds heavily on the blockchain.

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So when those changes happen, you know, how do you feel Pawa Pay is going to transition

over to that ecosystem?

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Yeah, it's something that we think about a lot, actually.

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uh We see it really as an evolution, much less than a revolution.

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uh I think if you think about it, mobile money is really Africa's original stable coin.

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If you think about what M-Pesa did back in 2007.

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You know, I never stopped getting excited or like amazed when I think about this, but you

had economies that were almost entirely cash-based for the transfer of value.

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And you had a realization that as mobile penetration grew and people were handing over,

you know, shillings or quacha or CDs to a company to buy airtime or to buy data, you had a

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digital store of value.

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You had this brilliant idea to

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use the same infrastructure to store financial value and make it easily transferable.

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So what you have is you have a form of digital money that is held in custody with mobile

network operators instead of banks.

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You have this form of uh transferability which happens instantly across a ledger.

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um know immediately whether a transaction is successful.

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It's more secure than banking.

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It's natively digital.

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like, holy cow, like all of a sudden, what am I describing?

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I'm describing to you the same things that people talk about the advantages of stablecoin.

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So I think that's how we approach it.

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we see that the continent was 20 years ahead in terms of building this infrastructure.

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Before, we were talking about crypto and digital assets and stablecoin and non-conferences

and then podcasts.

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and kind of all of the rest of it.

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So to kind of continue that thread is that mobile money digitized.

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a lot of economic activity within countries.

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Aggregators and payment companies like Pawa Pay have come along to kind of connect that

ecosystem to itself and to each other to start uh opening up.

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this network to em local merchants, to Pan-African merchants, to international merchants.

224

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And then the next step that we see is the kind of continuance of this digitization with

stablecoin, which em makes the...

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international or global movement of kind of follow the same path.

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It's just giving us more speed.

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It's giving us more security.

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It's reducing costs and it's reducing friction.

229

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And therefore, you know, we've had stable coins as part of our settlement flow uh for four

years since, you know, since before.

230

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Yeah, since before they were cool.

231

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uh

232

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First movers advantage.

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the need to kind of like, maybe we should have like market or we don't push it so hard.

234

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And of course there's lots of, you know, discussion around compliance and making sure you

do it in jurisdictions where it's acceptable and all of the rest of it.

235

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But it's, um for us, it's just kind of an evolutionary piece that...

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We've built into the digital payments infrastructure that we already operate.

237

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And it's all about just making it easier to do business across the continent.

238

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No, I absolutely agree with you.

239

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I do believe that we need to get to a point where finance, something as simple as money

should be easy to move across the continent, but unfortunately it's not because there's

240

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all these different regulations and governments and things that come into play.

241

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uh I want to talk about the fintech passport, right?

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So I know there's been a breakthrough in terms of the Ghana and the fintech passport.

243

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I know this is really important for expanding into different markets.

244

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How important is this for Pawa Pay in terms of diversifying and growing to different

African markets that FinTech passport having a lot of those moving parts kind of more

245

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simplified for you?

246

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Yeah, so we're already in Ghana and we're already in Rwanda.

247

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So it's probably less of a...

248

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uh

249

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It's not something that I see changing for us, like day to day, how we operate.

250

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But what I do love about it and what I hope it's the start of a trend is directionally

what it means.

251

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It's a recognition from two of the more uh thoughtful regulators on the continent that...

252

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businesses operate globally, businesses operate on a pan-African basis, and that there's

need to work together to put in place regulation that makes sense and can enhance the

253

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ability for responsible businesses to grow and then to drive growth and like to boost

economic activity.

254

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And it's definitely something that we want to see more of uh because

255

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Okay.

256

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You know, it's naive and silly to like think about Africa as one place.

257

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Of course, there's 54 countries, there's complexity, there's huge geographic spreads,

there's huge cultural spreads, there's huge economic spreads.

258

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But uh in the same way that you've seen the harmonization in Europe and harmonization

across North America, you have these economies which are trading with each other.

259

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You have businesses which are operating across the continent.

260

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And the regulatory and legislative friction can be an absolute

261

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killer.

262

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It takes a really long time to set up businesses and become licensed in these countries.

263

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So things that make that easier absolutely are the right direction of travel.

264

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Perfect, absolutely, I couldn't agree with you more on that, Aaron.

265

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Now, I know you and the team have been building Pawa Pay for quite some time now.

266

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Has there been any interesting insights that you've kind of seen, like over the years?

267

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Has there been any really interesting use cases in terms of people using the Pawa Pay API,

you know, to kind of build, you know, interesting platforms or, you know, deliver value

268

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for their customers?

269

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Yeah, I think for us, like...

270

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You know, when you stand back and look at it, can see this trend which starts like in the

lower left and goes upwards to the right.

271

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And when you kind of take away the lens of weeks and days and months and you look at it

over years, it's really encouraging.

272

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But of course, it doesn't always feel that way in the moment, right?

273

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It's not just Pawa Pay it's not just working in Africa, but anybody who's building or

scaling a business or part of one, uh

274

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you see these setbacks and you see these hurdles.

275

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So what gives us a lot of confidence and makes us excited is that when we see the ability

to grow with our partners and changing your payment provider or entering a new market is

276

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a...

277

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It's really big deal.

278

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it doesn't sound like much, but it can cause disruption, challenges, lots of questions

about it.

279

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Is it going to be better?

280

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Is this a good idea?

281

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All of that.

282

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So when we see companies that come with us for like one flow in one country, and then

expand that to multiple flows, and then maybe expand it to multiple products, including

283

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bank payouts and mobile money collections, and then expand across markets for us, that's

like the biggest kind of recognition that we're, that we're

284

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we're doing something right.

285

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I can't say who, but I was speaking to a customer of ours earlier this year in West

Africa, which operates a business that they need recurring payments for, like kind of a

286

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subscription type model.

287

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And they said that prior to using Pawa Pay, 40 % of their...

288

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their monthly subscription was paid digitally.

289

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Once they migrated to us within a year, it went to 70 to 75 % paid digitally and their

renewal rates started to approach 90%.

290

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And like, look, this is like a little like kind of geeky case, you know, I'm talking to

you about the things that we're paying attention to, but it's a microcosm, which for us

291

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says, we like, we're a payments business.

292

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We make money every time payments go through our rails.

293

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So for us to grow, we

294

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to get more customers, but more importantly, we need our customers to grow.

295

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um And that's really fun to be part of.

296

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It's a beautiful win-win scenario, isn't it Aaron?

297

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The more they grow, the more you grow and it just becomes this spiral effect and then the

more they grow, the more they will tell others about Pawa Pay and they come on board.

298

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It's a nice little domino effect there which I'm sure must give you a real buzz.

299

00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:57,813

What kind of things, I'm sure you've been in this space for quite some time Aaron, what

kind of things gives you a real buzz?

300

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What you're really passionate the most about being in this space right now?

301

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uh

302

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You're gonna be at the conference tomorrow.

303

00:27:04,696 --> 00:27:09,650

I mean, there's so many, so much African FinTech events happening on the continent.

304

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It just shows you where financial ecosystem is at in Africa.

305

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What's really exciting you the most about this space?

306

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Look, I think for those of us that have the privilege of working in Africa, being here in

Ghana, and if you work in this space, whether it's fintech or anything else, but if you

307

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work on the continent, if you're from Africa, if you're from wherever, chances are you

love it.

308

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Every day is just, it can be an adventure, but...

309

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It's incredible.

310

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uh I think there's a sense, there's challenges all over the place, right?

311

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Don't get me wrong.

312

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There's complexity all over the place.

313

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But if you travel around and you do business kind of around the world, when you come to

Africa, there's optimism and there's excitement and there's opportunity.

314

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And I find it infectious.

315

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This continent is going to be the biggest

316

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market of customers in terms of people by the end of the decade.

317

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There's a billion.

318

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We see more and more interest from global businesses who want to come and do business on

the continent.

319

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If you think about a company like Spotify, everybody in Europe

320

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who wants a Spotify account has a Spotify account.

321

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Maybe they'll get me to upgrade and pay for my daughter's when she goes to university.

322

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I'll go to digital for an extra couple of bucks a month, but that place is saturated.

323

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If you're on the growth team there, where are you going to be?

324

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You're going to be looking here.

325

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This is where people are starting to want to be.

326

00:29:01,079 --> 00:29:06,782

And on the other hand, you have so many African companies that are starting to blossom

327

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are starting to expand the innovation that you have coming through in the fintech sector.

328

00:29:11,566 --> 00:29:18,152

uh know, again, it started like with mobile money, but stepping back, where are stable

coins taking off?

329

00:29:18,152 --> 00:29:24,807

It's here because there's problems to solve and there is the human capital and the human

resource here for people who want to solve it.

330

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yeah, this is what gives me a buzz.

331

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I think it gives everybody at Pawa Pay a buzz.

332

00:29:29,931 --> 00:29:32,803

This is like what gets us excited about what we're building.

333

00:29:33,229 --> 00:29:33,839

can feel it.

334

00:29:33,839 --> 00:29:35,490

I can feel it all the way from here, Aaron.

335

00:29:35,490 --> 00:29:40,351

Honestly, it's an exciting time, going into the 2030s as well.

336

00:29:40,351 --> 00:29:48,654

I think Africa having the youngest continent in the world as well, I think it's going to

be a very interesting time to see how everything unravels.

337

00:29:48,654 --> 00:29:53,346

And then on top of that, you've got AI and all of these different emerging technologies as

well.

338

00:29:53,346 --> 00:29:56,897

mean, things are only just getting started here.

339

00:29:57,088 --> 00:30:07,326

Okay, so I want to ask Aaron, regarding you and this company as well, where do you think

you guys are going to go next from here?

340

00:30:07,326 --> 00:30:14,121

mean, mobile money, amazing, you've nailed that down, you've added remittance to it, where

do you think Pawa Pay is going to go next?

341

00:30:14,121 --> 00:30:15,772

Or is it like a roadmap?

342

00:30:16,858 --> 00:30:22,533

Yeah, I mean, think em it's a good question.

343

00:30:22,533 --> 00:30:25,876

We spend a lot of time thinking about it.

344

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One of the principles we always come back to is around kind of owning your lane.

345

00:30:32,183 --> 00:30:33,648

um

346

00:30:33,648 --> 00:30:40,791

I would say we take pride in doing as few things as possible, exceptionally well.

347

00:30:40,891 --> 00:30:46,854

our kind of informal slogan is like, payments don't have to suck.

348

00:30:46,934 --> 00:30:52,157

And so if you start there, like what does it take to make payments not suck, right?

349

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So you need to have a great uh technology product.

350

00:30:56,789 --> 00:30:58,619

You need to have great support.

351

00:30:58,660 --> 00:31:00,941

You need to have real time reconciliation.

352

00:31:00,941 --> 00:31:04,082

You need to be able to offer global trade.

353

00:31:04,383 --> 00:31:12,148

And then it's building out from there for precisely, you know, what we think and what we

see the customer demand is.

354

00:31:12,148 --> 00:31:20,193

So Adrian, you touched on one of those things, which is that last year we started making

our first forays into the the remittance market.

355

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There's a huge amount of volume that's coming in there.

356

00:31:22,815 --> 00:31:29,939

There is uh a huge amount of growth uh that's coming every year.

357

00:31:30,220 --> 00:31:33,862

And there's a huge amount of friction in that market.

358

00:31:33,862 --> 00:31:35,373

as well, right?

359

00:31:35,373 --> 00:31:40,487

So that's one of the key areas that we're really focused on for 2026.

360

00:31:40,487 --> 00:31:50,835

And again, it's not just about the payout rails, but it's looking around the whole

industry of where we can help shape it, help it evolve.

361

00:31:50,895 --> 00:32:03,194

And for us, the critical things there are uh really around FX and treasury, which I

touched on earlier, but which is like, which is a huge, I think barrier.

362

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to growth and to business across the continent.

363

00:32:08,479 --> 00:32:23,818

uh The second piece we're working on uh is around banking integration uh because we see

increased demand for that, particularly on larger uh flows, whether that's remittance or

364

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certain B2B transactions.

365

00:32:25,569 --> 00:32:29,471

uh And then the third piece is around digital assets.

366

00:32:29,471 --> 00:32:30,712

uh

367

00:32:30,712 --> 00:32:37,774

So I mentioned that we're using stable coins uh as part of the global treasury process.

368

00:32:37,774 --> 00:32:46,076

uh But we know that there's also demand for a stable coin wallet product across the

continent as well.

369

00:32:46,076 --> 00:32:48,757

And that's one of the areas that we're looking at really closely.

370

00:32:48,757 --> 00:32:58,092

Again, I should say, you know, always kind of in line with local regulation, something

that we follow really, really closely.

371

00:32:58,092 --> 00:32:59,152

But

372

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If I go back to that first principle of making sure payments don't suck and focusing on

local payment methodologies, we really need to put our emphasis where we see those trends

373

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emerging.

374

00:33:14,187 --> 00:33:17,382

I think you've really said something important here, Aaron.

375

00:33:17,382 --> 00:33:21,287

Thank you for uh sharing your thoughts, by the way.

376

00:33:22,201 --> 00:33:31,961

mean the biggest problem to solve on Africa really is you know payments is one of the

biggest problems to solve and mobile money is one of the main solutions to that.

377

00:33:31,961 --> 00:33:34,921

So you're really just doubling down or tripping down on that.

378

00:33:34,921 --> 00:33:38,721

I think it's really important because there's so many unbanked people as I said earlier

on.

379

00:33:39,521 --> 00:33:45,561

But also I think it's also important to have in the back of your mind where the industry

could go in the future.

380

00:33:45,561 --> 00:33:51,021

So it's good that you've been working on the stablecoin wallet as well which is really

important.

381

00:33:52,315 --> 00:33:59,647

I mean navigating the regulations and the compliance space because it's not the same in

all the countries.

382

00:33:59,647 --> 00:34:01,088

It must be really tough.

383

00:34:02,648 --> 00:34:08,371

Yeah, it's not easy.

384

00:34:08,371 --> 00:34:12,773

Look, fortunately, we have a really strong regulatory and compliance team.

385

00:34:12,773 --> 00:34:18,435

uh We do have, as we talked about, that local presence.

386

00:34:18,435 --> 00:34:28,440

uh And we're at a size now, coming up to 3 billion transactions.

387

00:34:28,784 --> 00:34:31,266

we have to do things in the right way.

388

00:34:31,266 --> 00:34:33,608

We have to plan for the long term.

389

00:34:33,608 --> 00:34:44,578

uh You sometimes that can be challenging in markets where you see different people in

different companies have sort of a different disposition or a different approach.

390

00:34:44,578 --> 00:34:55,827

uh But we want to be kind of at the forefront of what's possible and really a voice that's

helping to shape the conversation.

391

00:34:55,827 --> 00:34:57,108

uh

392

00:34:57,968 --> 00:35:02,286

the direction that regulation and policy should take.

393

00:35:03,128 --> 00:35:05,008

Awesome, I love that Aaron.

394

00:35:05,088 --> 00:35:14,948

So I know you're doing around, don't know, maybe it's this increase now, you know, from

this current date, I know you're doing around approximately, is it 10,000 transactions per

395

00:35:14,948 --> 00:35:16,980

second or per minute, roughly.

396

00:35:16,980 --> 00:35:19,360

now you're going to make me do the math.

397

00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:25,980

So we do around 5 million transactions a month.

398

00:35:26,540 --> 00:35:31,600

And we've seen our total volumes double for the last couple of years.

399

00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:38,260

But it means at any given time, Pawa Pay can be processing 2, 3, 4, 500 transactions every

single second.

400

00:35:38,260 --> 00:35:51,301

Yeah, yeah, that's a lot of transactions and what do you feel will be the key drivers to,

you know, kind of pushing the boundaries and trying to kind of get to the levels of the

401

00:35:51,301 --> 00:35:57,361

stripes of this world doing around 150,000 transactions per minute What do you think would

be the key drivers?

402

00:35:57,361 --> 00:36:00,821

mean, what do you think would need to happen for you to kind of get to that level?

403

00:36:02,961 --> 00:36:04,661

I put you in a spot there.

404

00:36:04,661 --> 00:36:06,001

I am sorry.

405

00:36:06,461 --> 00:36:07,281

No, no, no.

406

00:36:07,281 --> 00:36:09,464

It's a really interesting question.

407

00:36:09,464 --> 00:36:18,291

I think, you know, technically we've had to build an infrastructure that can scale, right?

408

00:36:18,653 --> 00:36:22,255

So you have the stats and if you ever want to go and see

409

00:36:22,556 --> 00:36:27,736

you know, how we perform, all of our uptime is public on the Pawa Pay website.

410

00:36:27,736 --> 00:36:37,156

We also have the uptime for all of the MNOs, so you can see whether it's a PSP issue or an

MNO issue, but you know, we managed to stay up.

411

00:36:37,316 --> 00:36:42,616

We went 20, 25 without having a single incident of downtime, right?

412

00:36:42,616 --> 00:36:44,192

So that, that.

413

00:36:44,192 --> 00:36:44,402

that.

414

00:36:44,402 --> 00:36:45,527

Congratulations.

415

00:36:45,527 --> 00:36:57,006

kind of culture and that kind of resilience tells us that we can solve for scale and we

can continue to grow.

416

00:36:58,108 --> 00:37:07,476

I think the key driver for that, really to get to those types of volumes, uh and it seems

far away now.

417

00:37:07,548 --> 00:37:17,871

uh But it's going to continue to do the stuff that's going to make it easier for people to

come and do business here and for businesses to grow.

418

00:37:17,871 --> 00:37:26,973

uh And, you know, we have a number of really exciting multinational groups on the books

already.

419

00:37:26,973 --> 00:37:30,494

We so many more that we're talking to.

420

00:37:30,915 --> 00:37:35,436

And we just have to keep our heads down and keep solving, keep improving and,

421

00:37:37,466 --> 00:37:49,433

not just like trying to sell Pawa Pay, but making the case for why we believe so

passionately in the potential on the continent um and making it easy for these companies

422

00:37:49,433 --> 00:37:50,924

to come and do business here.

423

00:37:51,257 --> 00:37:52,917

Absolutely, absolutely.

424

00:37:52,917 --> 00:37:53,657

No, thank you, Aaron.

425

00:37:53,657 --> 00:37:56,737

I really appreciate those points that you've shared as well.

426

00:37:56,737 --> 00:38:02,197

And I just want to say congratulations to all of the success you and the team have had at

Pawa Pay.

427

00:38:02,197 --> 00:38:05,357

You're solving a really big problem on the continent.

428

00:38:05,357 --> 00:38:15,157

And also, from what I've seen from the product so far, customer onboarding and the

customer onboarding side of the product has been really fantastic.

429

00:38:15,157 --> 00:38:21,277

And that's really enabled merchants to have a very good user experience with the product

as well.

430

00:38:22,009 --> 00:38:30,830

Just to bring this to a close, I just want to ask you, I mean, we do have listeners, you

know, anywhere from FinTech builders, FinTech professionals, FinTech entrepreneurs.

431

00:38:30,830 --> 00:38:35,630

We've got people who like to do a lot of remittance, you know, to the continent.

432

00:38:35,630 --> 00:38:38,710

These are types of listeners that we also have on this The Sound of Accra podcast.

433

00:38:39,310 --> 00:38:46,130

What would you want to share with those types of listeners in terms of what you would want

them to know regarding Pawa Pay?

434

00:38:47,228 --> 00:38:55,648

I mean, look, if payments touch your business and Africa is on your map, we should be

talking.

435

00:38:56,088 --> 00:39:01,460

It's not just about whether or not...

436

00:39:01,550 --> 00:39:17,046

you can be a customer of Pawa Pay Of course, we'd be delighted to have that conversation,

but our ability to do what we do is deeply reliant on having, as I said, dozens and dozens

437

00:39:17,046 --> 00:39:23,708

of partners uh who we can work with across all manner of things, banking, FX.

438

00:39:27,313 --> 00:39:31,415

merchants of course, like we'd love to get, we'd love to get in touch.

439

00:39:31,415 --> 00:39:47,301

And, know, even if there is not that, um, business opportunity that's like immediately

apparent on day one, you know, I'm a big believer in serendipity, you know, perhaps it

440

00:39:47,301 --> 00:39:53,824

comes down the line or perhaps we know people and we can help each other out, but it's,

one of the things that makes.

441

00:39:55,548 --> 00:40:03,481

Africa is a thrilling place to work is because there's so much collaboration and there's

so much enthusiasm and we really love to be a part of that.

442

00:40:03,481 --> 00:40:05,212

So please, yeah, reach out.

443

00:40:05,212 --> 00:40:06,693

Like you can find us on the website.

444

00:40:06,693 --> 00:40:08,513

You can find me at LinkedIn.

445

00:40:08,553 --> 00:40:09,994

You can tag Adrian.

446

00:40:09,994 --> 00:40:15,036

uh Yeah, we'd love to talk to you.

447

00:40:15,426 --> 00:40:16,038

Thank you, Aaron.

448

00:40:16,038 --> 00:40:17,603

I really, really appreciate that.

449

00:40:17,603 --> 00:40:18,083

Great.

450

00:40:18,083 --> 00:40:20,470

So um that's it.

451

00:40:20,470 --> 00:40:23,417

Any final thoughts, any announcements you leave your listeners,

452

00:40:25,172 --> 00:40:30,335

No, Adrian, it's really been a pleasure to uh have this chance to speak with you.

453

00:40:30,335 --> 00:40:36,797

um And um yeah, looking forward to a really exciting week in Accra.

454

00:40:36,797 --> 00:40:40,619

And we'll certainly get in touch to share the feedback for how it's gone.

455

00:40:40,619 --> 00:40:42,260

Thanks so much for the opportunity.

456

00:40:42,585 --> 00:40:44,505

No problem, Aaron, no problem at all.

457

00:40:44,505 --> 00:40:47,065

Thank you for coming on such short notice.

458

00:40:47,065 --> 00:40:48,385

I really appreciate it.

459

00:40:48,385 --> 00:40:53,005

Great, so I'll let the listeners know where they can learn more about Pawa Pay as well.

460

00:40:53,005 --> 00:40:54,665

I really appreciate it.

461

00:40:54,665 --> 00:40:56,925

All right, guys, thanks for tuning in, guys.

462

00:40:56,925 --> 00:40:59,705

I will catch you in the next one of the Sound Accra podcast.

463

00:40:59,705 --> 00:41:00,585

Thank you for tuning in.